Philips bypass capacitors in 203U - Specifications? (Techniek Radio/TV)

door Robert Lozier @, 02.03.2023, 19:01 (420 dagen geleden)

Hello, I am wanting to write an article about the Philips 203U series of AC/DC radios introduced in 1941. (I have a 204U made for export to Sweden) I see that these radios were "tropicalized" to better survive hot and humid parts of the world. The bypass and larger coupling capacitors appear to molded in some sort of plastic or tar substance. Is there any technical description or advertising about these capacitors available from that period of time?

I understand that some Eastern Block versions of the Philetta were still being manufactured into the middle 1950s. Did they continue to make the bypass and coupling capacitors in the same way? [image]

I have read 45 Years With Philips and am fascinated with the way that Philips was operated under occupation.

Thanks,
Robert

Philips bypass capacitors in 203U - Specifications?

door soundman2 @, Wouw, 02.03.2023, 19:35 (420 dagen geleden) @ Robert Lozier

The black stuff is tar.
Today , most of this capacitors are leaking and suffer from great changes in capacity.
For restoration purposes, new capacitors are molded again in tar and they're looking the same as in those days.

Philips bypass capacitors in 203U - Specifications?

door Robert Lozier @, 02.03.2023, 20:36 (420 dagen geleden) @ soundman2

Thanks for your comment. I understand that these parts do not survive like your marvelous high value resistors. But I would still like to know how they were regarded by engineers and service personnel back around 1940... Also how the might have been advertised or reported in technical publications and magazines...
Robert

Philips bypass capacitors in 203U - Specifications?

door Maarten Bakker ⌂ @, Haarlem / Delft, 02.03.2023, 20:59 (420 dagen geleden) @ Robert Lozier

They were regarded as the only type of regular affordable capacitor available from Philips, in a time when every manufacturer of such capacitors used impregnated paper in some kind of encapsulation. They all claimed to be moisture proof to some degree.

I don't know whether Philips really advertised them. I do know Wima and ERO did in the 1950's and 1960's, claiming new technology, new tropicalisations, etc. Spoiler: theirs turned out to be way worse after years of use than the Philips ones - but chances were if you used a radio or TV set for 20 years, some of the repairs done in that period would have involved replacing a paper capacitor, regardless of the manufacturer.

Philips bypass capacitors in 203U - Specifications?

door Maurice ⌂ @, Dordrecht, 02.03.2023, 21:17 (420 dagen geleden) @ soundman2

Philips Persblok papier Condensatoren.
Philips Pressure Block Paper Capacitor

Have some Philips documetation from it.
Off-course its Dutch, but Translate will work.

There had been with a Red pointed side, special for measurement equipment.
Also with a metal shield tube provided, also mainly measurement equipment.

Philips Service document 1952-08
[image]
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[image]

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"I haven't even turned this on to see if it works because as long as I don't it might"

Philips bypass capacitors in 203U - Specifications?

door Maurice ⌂ @, Dordrecht, 02.03.2023, 21:27 (420 dagen geleden) @ Maurice

Cylindrical Paper capacitors in pressed housing
Specially designed for coupling and de-coupling purposes.
For electronic like Radio,TV and lof frequency amplifiers.

Consists of 2 layer aluminium foil and 3-layers sepcial paper,carefully impregnated at high vacuum.
The black plastic mass is of high quality substance and makes these capacitors extremely reliable product.
They where molded under high vacuum.

(RED: That plastic seems to us more like Tar.)But it is mentioned on this box of capacitors.

[image]
[image]
[image]
[image]

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"I haven't even turned this on to see if it works because as long as I don't it might"

Philips bypass capacitors in 203U - Specifications?

door hans @, Hoorn, 02.03.2023, 22:49 (420 dagen geleden) @ Maurice

(RED: That plastic seems to us more like Tar.)

Plastic means malleable; it is not a reference to the synthetic material.
Plastic betekent vervormbaar; het is geen verwijzing naar het synthetische materiaal.

hans

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raaf apenstaart multiweb punt nl

Philips bypass capacitors in 203U - Specifications?

door Maarten Bakker ⌂ @, Haarlem / Delft, 02.03.2023, 20:47 (420 dagen geleden) @ Robert Lozier

This was the way Philips potted their impregnated paper capacitors from the 1930's on. They were made almost the same way throughout the 1950's and at least part of the 1960's. From the late 1950's on, longlife epoxy coated polyester capacitors took over partially. For high voltage, low loss, high dV/dt applications, Philips continued to use paper or mixed dielectric capacitors, though shifting to metal or plastic casings and epoxy potting over time. Starting in the 1970's, polypropylene capacitors took over for most of the remaining applications, though I think Vishay BC might still have a small series of MKT-P mixed dielectric capacitors for designers who insist on using them but got burned (sometimes literaly) by other brands.

While those tar encapsulated types weren't too bad as far as affordable paper capacitors go (when new they were better than even the few remaining current paper types - think RIFA), they should be considered 'replace on sight' if your goal is to restore an apparatus with the goal of using it daily. If they don't leak electrically at low voltage and room temperature, they will leak at higher voltage or after warming up a bit. A telltale sign is that even when cold, the measured capacity is often much too high.

Philips bypass capacitors in 203U - Specifications?

door Laurens @, Zaandam, 02.03.2023, 21:25 (420 dagen geleden) @ Robert Lozier

The pitch coated capacitors aren't specifically meant for tropicalized radios - they were just 'the' standard Philips paper capacitor.

Out of all paper capacitors, it's one of the least bad types. But they're now well past their 'sell by' date. If you're only gonna turn on the radio for 15 minutes every month, you can leave most (but not all) of them in place. For a reliable set that you can turn on for hours at a time, all have to be replaced.

They're better than Wima Tropydur capacitors (the taffy or candy-shaped, often shiny capacitors).

There are vendors that sell unused pitch-coated capacitors - don't buy them. Even when you don't use them, the chemical process that degrades the paper continues.

There's one exception: using them in low voltage applications (12v max). The leakage of these caps varies with the applied voltage, and the 400v capacitors can be completely acceptable in circuits where they only see 12v. Like in DIY radios with battery tubes.

--
Ik neem op kleine schaal reparaties voor anderen aan voor een leuke prijs.
Stuur een mailtje bij interesse.

Philips bypass capacitors in 203U - Specifications?

door Robert Lozier @, 03.03.2023, 15:47 (420 dagen geleden) @ Laurens

Gentlemen,

Excellent responses to my query and very much appreciated!

I have always been fascinated by Philips radio design and have representative designs from the 2514 through to the 1960s valve sets... A marvelous contrast to American design and manufacture.

Yes, no consumer electronic components were ever specified to last forever but it is interesting to be aware of the strengths and weakness revealed by circuit application and passage of time...

All the best,
Robert

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